Price Of Solar Hot Water System

Frequently Asked Questions

1. QUESTION:
   HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST TO CONVERT AN OIL BOILER HEATING SYSTEM TO SOLAR?
   I am in the process of purchasing a new home and was wondering what the approximate costs of converting the existing oil hot water heating system to a solar system. The oil also heats my hot water, so I would appreciate any info on converting my hot water system too.. I live in eastern Pennsylvania, and the house is about 1500 sq feet. I have a south facing roof as well.

   Any info would be appreciated, just looking for some ballpark prices! thanks!

   • ANSWER:
     Cost varies considerably between doing some of the work yourself to having someone install it for you.

     A lot also depends on whether or not you are actually have a 2 pipe hot water system, a single pipe steam system. If you are planning on doing some serious landscaping, you will have better luck with a geothermal system. They will vary widely on cost depending on a number of factors, but expect anywhere from around 20,000 to 35 thousand as a ball park for geothermal, based on numbers for someone I know who installed one. You still need a back up heat source, but less need for back up heat than you would with a soar heat system. Solar heat you should plan for a backup system. The other advantage with geothermal is you can use it for cooling in summer as well. A lot of money to be sure, but you can expect such a system to likely pay for itself in about 10 years. An installer in your area can give you better numbers.

     Using the geothermal as only a rough guide, you should expect a hot water solar system to run from about 25,000 to 40,000 as a ball park estimate providing your roof is adequate for the panels and need no extra construction for support. This sounds like a lot of money, but the reality is your heating bills will be much less.

     If you do it yourself, you can save a lot of money, but make sure to invest in the code books to make sure your work meets national codes, and double check with your local unit of government to see if they have additional code requirements.

2. QUESTION:
   Price to instal a solar water heater?
   Should you install a solar water heater? The average home has a 200 liter (50-60 gallon) hot-water tank, which is effectively drained and replenished three times per day. Assume that the entering tap water is 13 degrees C and is heated to 55 degrees C. Given an average energy from sunlight of 1.53 kJ/cm2 per day, how large would the collection area (in m2 of a solar water heater need to be if its efficiency is 20%? Assume that the price of a solar collector is 5/m2. How much would it cost to install this hot water system?

   Calculate energy required to heat 1 mL of water. Convert this to tank volume. area=heat required/(solar heat/area)/eff. Installation cost = area x solar collector cost.

   I'm getting 34x10^6 m^2
   12x10^9 dollars to install

   Apparently this is wrong but I can't find my mistakes. Anyone?
   I have 4180 J/Liter giving 837,200 J to heat up 200 Liters of water 1 degree C. I multiplied that by 3 because it's drained and filled 3 times a day giving me 2,511,600J per day. I multiplied that by 42 (55-13) giving me 105x10^6J per day, altering for the change in temperature of the tank. I took that and converted it to kJ = 105x10^3kJ per day. Took 1.53kJ/cm^2 and divided by 1000 to get m^2.

   105x10^3/(.0153kJ/m^2)-----> Divided by .20 for efficiency factor and got 34x10^6 m^2

   34x10^6 m^2 x 375 to get 12x10^9 dollars

   I know this is wrong, but I just can't seem to find the mistake.

   • ANSWER:
     Eyeballing it, about 50 m^2, and 000, which is way out of line with the real world, at least, for Hawaii. Without that 20% efficiency number, the answer would be reasonable for me. I would think 10 m^2 and 00.

     Look up the "specific heat of water", and find out how many joules are needed to heat a gram (= 1 mL) of water by one degree C. That's the same number of kJ needed to heat a liter.

     EDIT:

     "kJ = 105x10^3kJ per day. Took 1.53kJ/cm^2 and divided by 1000 to get m^2."

     105 x 10^3 kJ per day. I agree. But you should take 1.53 kJ/cm^2 and *multiply* by (100 x 100 = 10,000) to get kJ/m^2. So that's 1.53 x 10^4 kJ/m^2.

     Dividing that figure into 105 x 10^3 kJ, you'll get 105/15.3 = about 7 m^2. Then divide by 0.20 to get 35 m^2.

3. QUESTION:
   Should you install a solar water heater?
   Should you install a solar water heater? The average home has a 200 liter (50-60 gallon) hot-water tank, which is effectively drained and replenished three times per day. Assume that the entering tap water is 15 degrees C and is heated to 50 degrees C. Given an average energy from sunlight of 1.53 kJ/cm2 per day, how large would the collection area (in m2) of a solar water heater need to be if its efficiency is 28%? Assume that the price of a solar collector is 5/m2. How much would it cost to install this hot water system?

   • ANSWER:
     I don't see how you can go rwong installing it, be it for economic -, environmental reasons or otherwise. In time, the system will undoubtedly pay for itself. There is also the safety factor. Propane can be volatile, something you don't have to worry about with solar. Hot water haeting systems aren't as high tech ( at laest not some) as you might think. You could probaly even install some pretty primitive ones of your own making. You could put a flat rectangular box with a large surface area on you roof, paint it a flat black , and you'll be surpriced at how much it can heat water. And you could just buy the standard hot water heating panels, witha pressure relief valve, and a mechanical heat expansion solar tracking device, or a computer controlled tracking. Pool heating systems , for the most part are pretty primitive, consisting mostly of lots of small rubber tubes bunched together in a mat, all connected to a larger supply , feed and circulation tubes. You could even coil a bunch of metal tubes , and paint them a flat black for maximum absorbtion of solar heat. I'd go solar. All around it's a good idea.

4. QUESTION:
   Which water heating system is the most efficient, realistic, and price effective?
   I am looking into water heating systems and I am looking more between a regular storage tank water heater that is insulated to prevent heat loss, has factory installed heat traps to prevent escape of hot water, and has an electronic ignition and a solar powered water heater with a regular water heater for a back up (because I have heard they usually aren't able to provide as much). Which is more efficient, cost wise and energy wise?

   • ANSWER:
     It can vary by where you are. If you are in a cold climate, a solar water panel is not the most practical at certain times of the year.

     A website with good information, http://www.builditsolar.com He is in Montana, where it gets really cold. So you can find some useful info there as well.

     In general, the water heaters in the stores have a tag that indicates what the estimated cost to operate it each year based on a certain rate of cost for fuel, and you can use that as a guideline in calculating what your annual cost to operate it will be, then add the cost of the heater and the cost of installation if you are not doing it yourself.

     You can expect a storage tank water heater to have a tank last 6 to 12 years depending on water condition, and maintenance of the anode rod.

     Most on demand heaters have a jacket tank of about a gallon capacity, and most manufacturers have a warranty on those of 10 years.minimum.

     The better solar water panels have a 10 year warranty at a minimum, but you have reduncy with the back up. And you may have extra issues with storage tanks, isolating the collector plumbing, etc.

     It may not pay to have the solar panel heater installed at this time, but it can be used as a way of avoiding the likely carbon taxes of the future.

5. QUESTION:
   Why dont we require Solar of some type on new buildings & houses like they did in California in the 1980's?
   During the oil embargo years during the 1980's, the State of California required all new residential buildings to install Solar hot water heating systems. Hot Water costs a family of 4 an avg of /month according to Sempra Energy. With the current federal tax credits it pays for itself in just 2-3 years, so why not require it on all new residential construction across the U.S.?

   Solar Electric (Photovolataics) has come down in price to the point where it can pay for itself in just 10 years(or less) in desert areas like Southern California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico & large portions of Texas where summer cooling bills are outrageous. Why not require it on all new construction?

   With long term(10+ yr) Sallie Mae loans Solar Electric can actually pay for itself from the start when you factor in Federal Tax Credits and State(like California) or Utility Company(like Nevada) incentives. Why not require it & give property owners Govt secured, long term low interest loans to pay for it?

   • ANSWER:
     There are a few reasons why this has not been mandated. First, as the previous answerer said, solar power is not feasible everywhere. It works well in southern California, because it is very sunny and energy needs are moderate due to very mild temperatures. It would probably not work in Seattle, Washington, where it rains very frequently and is cloudy much of the time. It might also be a poor choice in North Dakota, where scorching summer heat and crippling winter blizzards put a huge strain on the energy grid.

     Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, this is America. Technology and industry are theoretically independent of the government. It's true that the government sponsors research and subsidizes corporations, but individuals ultimately have the freedom to choose what they want to invent and what inventions they want to use. Each person who builds a house has the right to decide how to build it, and each person who buys a house has the right to decide what kind of home they want to live in. A builder who wants to appeal to environmentally concscious homeowners will build a home that takes advantage of alternative energy sources. If solar power technology becomes more and more sophisticated, more efficient, and less expensive, everyone will want it in their own home, and it won't have to be mandated. If it isn't appealing enough for people to choose it on their own, the government shouldn't force them to do it.

6. QUESTION:
   Is this a good essay?
   In the 21st Century we use oil and gas for transport, to produce electricity, as well as for many other things. We would not be able to survive without oil and gas, and when the supply runs out civilization as we know it may fall apart. People don’t know how to live without oil, we use it for everything. Hawaii is the most oil-dependent state in the nation, according to the US Department of Energy, we use imported petroleum for 90% of our energy. We pay the highest prices for electricity and fuel.
   When oil was first discovered there was so much of it that people thought we would never run out, but of course that was wrong. We know now that the world's oil reserves will run out soon. The oil in our earth was formed by natural geological processes which happened millions of years ago. Oil consumption is over 30 billion barrels a year and demand continues to be out of control.
   The only solution is to find different resources that are renewable that we can rely on. Almost all renewable energy comes either directly or indirectly from the sun. Sunlight can be used for heating homes and other buildings, generating electricity and hot water heating, and all different kinds of uses for homes and businesses.
   Energy from the sun can be used in many ways but usually people have a "solar thermal hot water" system that they use to heat water. Also you can install photovoltaic “PV” panels to produce electricity. The solar panels have solar cells that convert the sun's energy into electricity. In Hawaii there are rebates and tax incentives for installing both, solar hot water systems and PV panels.
   There is a endless supply of wind in Hawaii. The Department of Energy says that, “Good-to-excellent wind resource areas are fairly evenly distributed throughout the islands.” Wind holds unlimited potential as a clean, renewable energy source. Wind turbines can be used to power individual homes, or they can be connected to a utility power grid. When utility’s use wind power they build “wind plants”, which are large numbers of wind turbines built close together. There are already some wind plants supplying electricity to people on Maui and the Big Island, and there are plans to construct more wind turbines on Lanai, Molokai, and Oahu.
   Geothermal energy uses the Earth's internal heat for all kinds of uses, including producing electricity, and heating and cooling buildings. You can also use plants as a source of energy. Organic matter that makes up plants is known as biomass. Biomass can be used to produce electricity, fuels, or chemicals. Geothermal electricity production is used in Hawaii, a HELCO power plant supplies 20% of the Big Island's energy needs and they plan on making it bigger.
   Biomass is used all over Hawaii, H-POWER (Honolulu Project of Waste Energy Recovery), runs a "garbage to energy" power plant in Honolulu, it burns garbage to produce electricity, which it sells to HELCO. Materials that do not burn are recycled. The plant produces 8% of Oahu's electricity and lowers the amount of trash going into the landfills. In Hawaii we use agricultural waste to produce electricity as well.
   The ocean is a very powerful thing that can produce energy from the sun's heat and mechanical energy from the tides, currents, and waves. A process called Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (OTEC) uses the heat in the Earth's oceans to generate electricity. Tidal turbines look like wind turbines, they are used to convert tidal energy into electricity by forcing the water through turbines, moving a generator. We don’t use this resource as much as we should here in Hawaii. Wave power devices extract energy directly from surface waves, some systems are in deep water, and they use the bobbing motion of the waves to power a pump that creates electricity.
   Hawaii‘i has all kinds of natural energy sources, we have lots of sunshine, strong winds, fast-growing plants, raging rivers, geothermal heat, and warm and cold ocean water. All of these resources have the potential to help make energy and lower our dependence on imported petroleum. I think Hawaii should use more hydropower. Hydropower is using the energy in moving water to produce electricity. The force of a waterfall, river, or wave spins a turbine that turns a generator that produces electricity. We live on an island, we are surrounded by water!

   • ANSWER:
     You need an adult to proof-read this...
     I saw some grammatical errors. You have good organization, but you need to make sure you have transitions between paragraphs!

7. QUESTION:
   You are building a new home and are considering whether to install a solar heating?
   You are building a new home and are considering whether to install a solar heating system in addition to a normal oil fueled boiler. The additional costs associated with the solar heating system are as follows

   Materials
   €4350
   Labour
   €1250

   If you invest in this system is will provide 60% of your hot water needs averaged over the complete year. Your current bill for heating hot water using an oil fired burner is in the region of €500 per annum. Oil prices are expected to increase by an average of 8% per annum for the foreseeable future.

   The finance cost of the system is going to be 4.43% which is equivalent to the mortgage rate on your property

   Evaluate each of the systems using Payback, Discounted Payback and NPV over a 15 year period.

   • ANSWER:
     Your money would be better spent on a geothermal system.

8. QUESTION:
   Saving money on electricity.....................?
   Power costs are making news across the country and over three years bills have increased an average of 12 per cent in most states.

   St Vincent de Paul's energy analyst Gavin Dufty releases his forecast for power prices next week.

   Carbon pollution policy will increase the average bill by 0, the introduction of smart meters will add another and what are know as dynamic tariffs could boost that by another 0.

   "Expect to see the biggest prices increase, or the start of the price increases in Victoria and then we'd probably suggest Queensland and then followed by New South Wales," Gavin said.

   There is not much we can do about what the power companies charge so we are being encouraged to control what we use.

   Anne Armansin is employed by Origin Energy to show customers how to reduce electricity consumption.

   "We can all do something about it," she said.

   "I have noticed over the decade that people are willing to if they do get a high bill they'll call and say help us."

   Some easy options involve changing behaviour, so for every degree an air-conditioner will use 10 percent more electricity and even after it has been turned off by the remote it is sucking power.

   Every appliance on standby 24/7 can chew up to 15 watts of electricity. It soon adds up.

   "There are about 27 appliances in the average house that use standby power and it amounts to about 800kw of wasted power a year," Anne said.

   That amounts to 0 a year. If we all turned off our appliances at the switch across the country we would save enough power to run every home in Western Australia.

   There are gadgets to help, power boards that cut standby power by turning off one appliance.

   Anne said our most power hungry consumers are Generation Y.

   "They're filling their rooms with big screen TVs, games and high powered computers and they have a lot of fun," she said.

   Ed Parker is one person who is being careful and has gone from power consumer to power generator.

   Photvoltaic solar panels produce more power than his family can use so instead of getting 0 bills every quarter, he is getting 0 cheques.

   "We're actually returning better that 7-8 per cent on that extra investment," he said.

   The pool filter is another power-hungry device. It runs eight hours a day and in winter it does not have to.

   "You can drop it down to either four or two hours depending on what your pool supplier tells you," Anne said.

   Then there is the hot water.

   Choose an off peak tariff for your hot water system. Switch to solar if you can or an energy efficient heat pump.

   Energy saving tips
   1. Switch appliances off at the wall or get standby power saving power boards.
   2. Use fans instead of air-conditioning, they use one-tenth of the power.
   3. Replace old light bulbs with efficient globes.

   • ANSWER:
     Salam Alaikum,
     thanks for sharing this info ..
     and also, we must save electricity to help save our planet.. we humans are seriously wasting away our resources.

     another way of saving electricity is:
     once you turn off the computer ( at home or office ) to turn off the main power also.

     =)

9. QUESTION:
   which building material to use?
   I am in the planning stages of my first development- a 3x2br triplex. I would like to build as ecologically sustainably as possible including solar power and hot water systems, rainwater and greawater tanks and possibly double-glazed windows. I am utterly confused about which building materials to use though! It sounds as though mud-brick is more expensive than traditional brick, although I have read that it doesn't need to be lined internally and no structural frames are needed as they are load bearing wall. Besser-brick sounds a little cheaper and may not need internal frames as well? And then there's hebel and concrete sheet, and I'm not sure if this is the same as connite! Basically, I want to know what is the cheapest, most insulative, eco friendly and reasonably priced. Help!
   Thanks

   • ANSWER:
     You need to do your own research for specifics and choices. What you are missing is the absolute need to do this within the context of the Uniform Building Code. It does not make any difference if you live in a jurisdiction that mandates it or not. You don't make any assumptions about bearing walls, etc. If you don't document and follow acceptable standard practices, you can end up with a mess that no one will insure, no one will finance and no one will ever buy or accept as collateral. I know what you are trying to accomplish and all of that can be done within the UBC. Once your design is complete, don't buy any materials or do any work until you first pay a PE professional engineer to review everything.

10. QUESTION:
    Is it looking more and more likely that there might be life elsewhere in the Universe?
    As Arthur C Clarke pointed out, two possibilities exist; either we are alone in the Universe or we are not.

    A cosmic directory that lists the planets and moons most likely to harbour alien life was launched by astronomers today, out of hundreds of alien worlds, the catalogue lists only around 15 planets and 30 moons as potentially habitable.

    The catalogue gives scores for habitability to two confirmed planets. The first, Gliese 581d, is among several that circle one of Earth's nearest stars, the second planet, HD85512b, orbits a star 36 light years away in the constellation Vela. Both rank in the 'Goldilocks' region of space around a star, where the conditions are neither too hot nor too cold for liquid water to form.

    A further new planet, Kepler 22-b, outside of Earth's solar system has also been identified with many similarities to our own – making it the latest best potential target for life.

    "This is a major milestone on the road to finding Earth's twin," said Douglas Hudgins, Kepler program scientist at Nasa headquarters in Washington.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/05/exoplanet-kepler-22-b-nasa-earth?intcmp=239

    Would you welcome extraterrestrial life or would you be scared that they might nick you job and your benefits and lower the price of your house?
    @Jack: That will be the least of your problems, your biggest hurdle is coming to terms with 'intelligent life' as opposed to your pond life.

    • ANSWER:
      If you consider the Drake Equation it shows that even with the most conservative estimates the chances of us being alone in the universe is quite slim. If one in a million stars had planets, and one in a million of those planets had means to sustain life, and one in a million of those planets had life like our own, there could be potentially trillions of civilizations like our own in the universe. So it does seem likely. The chances are we will never see them though, since they are potentially so few and far between.

11. QUESTION:
    What do you think about these Amazing facts about Israel?
    I always find the antisemitic statements on R+S interesting and wondered if the authors could even identify Israel on a globe. I found these facts interesting and wondered how fellow contributors would view them.

    Israel is the 100th smallest country, and has about 1/1000th of the world's population. It is only 62 years old,

    Only 62 years old, 7 million people strong (less than Virginia), and smaller in size than New Jersey, surrounded by enemies, under constant threat and possessing almost no natural resources, and yet…

    * Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. It has absorbed 350% of its population in 60 years.

    * Israel is the only country in history to have revived an unspoken language.

    * Since the founding of the state, Israel has more Nobel Prices per capita than any other country. It has more laureates in real numbers than China, Mexico and Spain.

    * Israel has the 8th longest life expectancy (80.7 years), longer than the UK, US, and Germany

    * Israeli films were nominated three years in a row for the Academy Award's Best Foreign Film

    Environment

    * Israel is the only country that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, even more remarkable -- in an area that's mainly desert.

    * Over 90% of Israeli homes use solar energy for hot water, the highest percentage in the world.

    * Israel will be the first country to host a national electric car network.

    * Israel is ranked in the top five Cleantech countries of the world, and operates the world’s largest desalinization plant.
    * Israeli companies are producing the largest solar energy production facility in the world.

    Science & Technology

    * Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, 63% more than the U.S. It also has the most physicians and engineers per capita.

    * Israel's scientific research institutions are ranked 3rd in the world.
    * Israel is ranked 2nd in space sciences.

    * Israel produces the 3rd most scientific papers per capita, and the most in stem cell science.
    * More Israeli patents are registered in the United States than from Russia, India and China combined (combined population 2.5 billion). It leads the world in patents for medical equipment.

    * Israeli companies invented the drip irrigation system, discovered the world’s most used drug for multiple sclerosis, designed the Pentium NMX Chip technology and the Pentium 4 and Centrium microprocessors, created Instant Messenger (ICQ), and Israeli cows produce more milk per cow than any other in the world!

    Business

    * Israel has the 3rd highest rate of entrepreneurship among women in the world.

    * Israel has attracted the most venture capital investment per capita in the world, 30 times more than Europe

    * Israel has more NASDAQ-listed companies than any country besides the US -- more than all of Europe, India, China and Japan combined.

    * In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute numbers, Israel has more startups than any country other than the U.S

    http://www.aish.com/jw/id/90725314.html

    • ANSWER:
      Yep, all true. In many ways it is a powerful success story.

      However, it has been a the expense of most of its non-Jewish population, who have been living as refugees since 1948/9, and under occupation since 1967/73.

      The ultimate success story will be one that allows these refugees to return home and be full citizens. As Israel is essentially a Jewish state, albeit often very secular in character, it must become more secular so as to allow the Christian and Muslim population to feel at home in their own land. There are a range of ideas for doing so, including the oft-touted two-state solution, or a state of cantons, and the route to that won't be an easy one.

      In many ways it is a Rhodesia with powerful friends. Many of the same successes could be attributed to Rhodesia, but it was still run by a minority, at least at the partial expense of most of the people. Rhodesia ultimately failed as it lacked international support and could not withstand the pressure of its opponents. Holding out against change as long as possible meant a sensible compromise was not achieved, and the ruthless dictator who took over the new Zimbabwe was able to run the country into the ground.

      Israel has the USA, a superpower friend. It is under no real pressure to make the sort of compromises necessary to resolve the situation, and is still expanding into Palestinian land. The vast bulk of Palestinian refugees still own land in what is now Israel, but it will not even permit them to return, let alone recognise their property rights (including Ottoman and British Mandate title deeds). In many cases the old villages have been destroyed and redeveloped. This enforced exile is in contravention of international laws and the same UN resolutions that granted Israel recognition as a state.

      With strength comes callous arrogance, and that breeds hatred and ruthless terrorism amongst the dispossessed. Terrorism is used as a reason to not let refugees return, rather than recognising it as a direct symptom of the dispossession.

      If Palestinian refugees can be refused return, then that would also apply to Bosnians, Georgians, Western Saharans, Darfuris, etc, and one of the major principles by which we aspire to have a civilised world would go out the window. Ethnic cleansers like Radovan Karadzic could claim their methods were legitimate, and the results should remain. It would be ironic that a country that was founded in the shadow of the Holocaust was primarily responsible for enabling genocidalists to succeed.

      So while it's a major success in some ways, it is a complete disaster in others. A proper solution is very much needed. In the meantime, we cannot admire one shiny side of the coin without recognising the less shiny other side.

12. QUESTION:
    What do you think about these Amazing facts about Israel?
    I always find the antisemitic statements on R+S interesting and wondered if the authors could even identify Israel on a globe. I found these facts interesting and wondered how fellow contributors would view them.

    Israel is the 100th smallest country, and has about 1/1000th of the world's population. It is only 62 years old,

    Only 62 years old, 7 million people strong (less than Virginia), and smaller in size than New Jersey, surrounded by enemies, under constant threat and possessing almost no natural resources, and yet…

    * Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. It has absorbed 350% of its population in 60 years.

    * Israel is the only country in history to have revived an unspoken language.

    * Since the founding of the state, Israel has more Nobel Prices per capita than any other country. It has more laureates in real numbers than China, Mexico and Spain.

    * Israel has the 8th longest life expectancy (80.7 years), longer than the UK, US, and Germany

    * Israeli films were nominated three years in a row for the Academy Award's Best Foreign Film

    Environment

    * Israel is the only country that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, even more remarkable -- in an area that's mainly desert.

    * Over 90% of Israeli homes use solar energy for hot water, the highest percentage in the world.

    * Israel will be the first country to host a national electric car network.

    * Israel is ranked in the top five Cleantech countries of the world, and operates the world’s largest desalinization plant.
    * Israeli companies are producing the largest solar energy production facility in the world.

    Science & Technology

    * Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, 63% more than the U.S. It also has the most physicians and engineers per capita.

    * Israel's scientific research institutions are ranked 3rd in the world.
    * Israel is ranked 2nd in space sciences.

    * Israel produces the 3rd most scientific papers per capita, and the most in stem cell science.
    * More Israeli patents are registered in the United States than from Russia, India and China combined (combined population 2.5 billion). It leads the world in patents for medical equipment.

    * Israeli companies invented the drip irrigation system, discovered the world’s most used drug for multiple sclerosis, designed the Pentium NMX Chip technology and the Pentium 4 and Centrium microprocessors, created Instant Messenger (ICQ), and Israeli cows produce more milk per cow than any other in the world!

    Business

    * Israel has the 3rd highest rate of entrepreneurship among women in the world.

    * Israel has attracted the most venture capital investment per capita in the world, 30 times more than Europe

    * Israel has more NASDAQ-listed companies than any country besides the US -- more than all of Europe, India, China and Japan combined.

    * In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute numbers, Israel has more startups than any country other than the U.S

    http://www.aish.com/jw/id/90725314.html

    • ANSWER:
      Yep, all true. In many ways it is a powerful success story.

      However, it has been a the expense of most of its non-Jewish population, who have been living as refugees since 1948/9, and under occupation since 1967/73.

      The ultimate success story will be one that allows these refugees to return home and be full citizens. As Israel is essentially a Jewish state, albeit often very secular in character, it must become more secular so as to allow the Christian and Muslim population to feel at home in their own land. There are a range of ideas for doing so, including the oft-touted two-state solution, or a state of cantons, and the route to that won't be an easy one.

      In many ways it is a Rhodesia with powerful friends. Many of the same successes could be attributed to Rhodesia, but it was still run by a minority, at least at the partial expense of most of the people. Rhodesia ultimately failed as it lacked international support and could not withstand the pressure of its opponents. Holding out against change as long as possible meant a sensible compromise was not achieved, and the ruthless dictator who took over the new Zimbabwe was able to run the country into the ground.

      Israel has the USA, a superpower friend. It is under no real pressure to make the sort of compromises necessary to resolve the situation, and is still expanding into Palestinian land. The vast bulk of Palestinian refugees still own land in what is now Israel, but it will not even permit them to return, let alone recognise their property rights (including Ottoman and British Mandate title deeds). In many cases the old villages have been destroyed and redeveloped. This enforced exile is in contravention of international laws and the same UN resolutions that granted Israel recognition as a state.

      With strength comes callous arrogance, and that breeds hatred and ruthless terrorism amongst the dispossessed. Terrorism is used as a reason to not let refugees return, rather than recognising it as a direct symptom of the dispossession.

      If Palestinian refugees can be refused return, then that would also apply to Bosnians, Georgians, Western Saharans, Darfuris, etc, and one of the major principles by which we aspire to have a civilised world would go out the window. Ethnic cleansers like Radovan Karadzic could claim their methods were legitimate, and the results should remain. It would be ironic that a country that was founded in the shadow of the Holocaust was primarily responsible for enabling genocidalists to succeed.

      So while it's a major success in some ways, it is a complete disaster in others. A proper solution is very much needed. In the meantime, we cannot admire one shiny side of the coin without recognising the less shiny other side.